tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post128111810344432204..comments2024-03-02T20:43:21.208-08:00Comments on NewVintageLady: The Politics of Swing DancingShelleyjhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05223944949880318245noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-14655714076718531492015-12-21T11:33:39.773-08:002015-12-21T11:33:39.773-08:00As someone who has danced always in a range of siz...As someone who has danced always in a range of size 14 to 22, I can relate, but at the same time I still have a great dance night nearly every time I go out. I do a lot of the asking. I ask all night long. Sometimes I get turned down. I don't know if it's my size or completely unrelated. I don't find any point in dwelling on the reason, I just move onto the next person. Most leads will say yes, so I'm easily able to dance all night as long as I am willing to ask all night. I've been in the Chicago scene for about a year and over time I get to know people and figure out who I have good dance chemistry with, so the ratio of me asking vs being asked has shifted over time (at the same time, I'm so used to being the asker that I think I don't give people a chance to ask me as much). Dance is so amazing, and as a bigger dancer we have inherent differences in our movement that as we learn how to work our bodies make us really fun to dance with. But, you gotta be more willing to put yourself out there and deal with ambiguity as to whether the person you are dancing with has an issue with your size... they could also not like dancing with you for other reasons or even be enjoying themselves but not in a way that you interpret as such. I feel brave every time I ask someone to dance, and even braver when I feel rejected because it shows me that I am a strong and self-determining person. Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06133371314974901484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-43101341678097341232015-06-18T10:46:00.386-07:002015-06-18T10:46:00.386-07:00I've heard this mostly in the context of older...I've heard this mostly in the context of older dancers, but I guess it just boils down to this: if you are not a bright, young, small gal, you will be sidelined. As I've aged and gained weight in the swing dance community, I've seen fewer and fewer people ask me to dance. I'll second people's suggestions to lead, and add that if I'm feeling it, I'm just going to go solo dance, because I can't STAND to sit out a song that's moving me. What's great about solo dancing is that usually people join you and then you aren't dancing by yourself anymore. But I get that you want to improve your social dancing, too...I don't have any good answers for this. :( I was just talking with someone this past weekend at ABW how we don't have any larger follower role models in the Balboa community. Are even judges making choices based on weight? It certainly appears that way, after all these years of watching comps, both Lindy and Balboa. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-76564307203435090532013-03-18T00:58:31.655-07:002013-03-18T00:58:31.655-07:00Oh, and you know what, Ms. Shelley, another thing ...Oh, and you know what, Ms. Shelley, another thing I love about Chicago Steppin' . . . .girlll, we dance three, four, five at a time it is the bomb dot com. If you have not seen it, Google it. Check out a You Tube of The Bomb Squad with Sarah Teagle. Girl was working it with three other dancers. More people get to participate when it comes to Steppin'. ;-)Lyrichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16489326001502318429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-38102460157954416892013-03-18T00:50:03.419-07:002013-03-18T00:50:03.419-07:00Ms. Shelly J:
Truly empathy is what I am feeling ...Ms. Shelly J:<br /><br />Truly empathy is what I am feeling regarding your post. I have been there except with Chicago Steppin' and Detroit Style Urban Ballroom Dance. At one point I wanted to compete, yet I digress.<br /><br />I experienced some of the same things you described though I was not overly large (weelll, size 14). As you stated class was not overly problematic because they do the switch-off. But, when I attended Ballroom and Steppin' sets, pulleaze, if you didn't have a man; i.e., partner or you were not "popular" forget it. Yes, you would get one dance. The Gentlemen of Ballroom try to advertise the membren as being attentive to the ladies. But, let's keep it real, 400 gals to 50 guys; do the math. My solution was to leave the scene and now that I am over 1,000 miles away from that big city it is a moot point.<br /><br />For you I would state to please, please hang in there if you love dance (as I am feeling you do). I know I do and miss it terribly. <br /><br />It looks as you are in the Seattle area and frankly, when I consider what my Seattle girlfriend tells me about the area and things I have heard . . . ummm, I have to wonder if in addition to what you have stated could your ethnicity be an issue for "some" there, 'nuff said?<br /><br />You know what, had I stayed in the area where I was AND continued to want to ballroom and step I was seriously considering advertising for a "dance" partner. It was that serious for me because I have a passion for dance that would not quit and like I said I wanted to compete back then.<br /><br />Your plan is a good one: stick, stay, continue to somehow practice and get better for as you stated good dancers win out ultimately. Not being funny but I wonder would you do better with something as smooth and cool as urban ballroom as the fellas do not have to throw you around as in the video you shared above. <br /><br />Your spirit if wonderful, pray, hold your head back and keep it up as dance makes you happy. ;-)Lyrichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16489326001502318429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-25772129844355645202013-01-23T07:15:10.212-08:002013-01-23T07:15:10.212-08:00Wow! I've had the same thing happen to me here...Wow! I've had the same thing happen to me here in Houston over the years. I'm a great dancer (been doing the Lindy for more than 20yrs), I'm a size 6 and very athletic. Here it's more of a "race" thing. Now I don't go unless I have my own partner. Funny, I get more requests when I'm with someone than I do when I'm alone.....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07814171723053114004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-23813483891439870622012-09-15T07:40:44.358-07:002012-09-15T07:40:44.358-07:00I just found your blog and can relate.
When I sta...I just found your blog and can relate. <br />When I started dancing, I consistently grew as a dancer, I was dating (later married) one of the top leads in our little scene and when we went to the larger scene two hours away, people wanted to dance with his girlfriend to see what she was about. Then the novelty wore off and I was just some shorter, stockier intermediate dancer who wasn't in the cool group. The only time I’ve had really good luck getting more than three dances a night was without DH, I wore a low scoop tank (no AC -ick), and I was one of four follows who knew how to lindy. Between that and taking a year off for recurring cases of patella tendonitis, I’m not all that anxious to try out the scene where I’ve moved to.Crossing the Delebearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06455741201940091133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-80440207363928215512012-08-17T15:30:31.922-07:002012-08-17T15:30:31.922-07:00That's easier said than done, M. It's hard...That's easier said than done, M. It's hard to focus on dancing if the lead you are with only does basic moves but then goes on and does the more complex stuff with someone else. Can't improve that way, I mean it IS partner dancing. And partner dancing is had to do (or practice) when one partner isn't into it.Shelleyjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05223944949880318245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-65492311263924894222012-07-16T08:53:02.254-07:002012-07-16T08:53:02.254-07:00Honey, we went through that shit in the Orlando, F...Honey, we went through that shit in the Orlando, FL scene about 10 years ago. The Orlando scene is pretty much dead except for a few places now. Come to Orlando. Our dancers aren't lame exuses for human beings.Nina Suluhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08616884472638151080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-20437238037047638872012-06-02T01:29:02.243-07:002012-06-02T01:29:02.243-07:00That video is fabulous :-)!! And your instructors...That video is fabulous :-)!! And your instructors are fabulous too, I understand your general enthusiasm for dancing.<br /><br />But the other stuff stinks. I guess it's the problem with confusing dancing with cruising - many guys think while they're at it they may as well kill 2 birds with one stone.<br /><br />I think on the whole Andrea's approach is what works best for me too. As a fat, middle-aged and taller-than-average woman, I don't get asked by men, whom I'm not much interested in anyway :-). But being a lead will get you to dance a lot, even if you're not very good as I am. Easy enough to check out the other girls who're good dancers but don't fit the looks stereotypes, and have a blast. And seeing you dancing well is much more likely to get you positive responses later from other people. I'd suggest working up a whole network of unsuitable girls, and trading off leading with them, so nobody falls by the wayside. Get a mailing list together, trade off tips on events and make sure all of you have someone to dance with at all times.<br /><br />Don't be put off by the beginning guys who can't take a suggestion either. Those you don't really want to dance with at all anyway. Keep asking beginners, and soon you'll find enthusiastic and committed partners who appreciate your guidance and work hard at improving. Trade those off with the other nonstandard girls, and all of you will be better off in time.<br /><br />That said, I'm sure you always have the most glamorous outfits :-).M-Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12274053213125040838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-68025959680068137472012-06-01T00:31:07.727-07:002012-06-01T00:31:07.727-07:00It is sad to see you say it is a big emotional me...It is sad to see you say it is a big emotional mess. It does not have to be. You have to be clear on what you want. Do you want to dance, or do you want a date? If you want to date, maybe not the best venue for you. If you want to dance, dance. You are good , so have confidence. Never stand back and wait, always put yourself forward. Ask the best partners , ask the beginners, always be dancing,always be dancing with joy and enthusiasm. Just dance. Focus on that, and not on acceptance, or what the leads do or don't do, dance with anyone. You will shine, and eventually they will come round to realize it is fun to dance with you. It won't happen automatically, it won't happen overnight, and life is not fair.FWIW, I am a lot fatter than you, and go through life refusing to look at myself through the eyes of others, and since I have done that, am much happier for it.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00724600634822470612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-62058913057210269082012-05-31T16:09:46.595-07:002012-05-31T16:09:46.595-07:00Must read! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bugs-Ques...Must read! http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bugs-Question-of-the-Day/406783441288Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-16383107560343343732012-05-31T15:36:20.320-07:002012-05-31T15:36:20.320-07:00Hi Shelley, I have been following your blog for ab...Hi Shelley, I have been following your blog for about 9 months now, thru my Google reader, I found this last post sad, but so true. I was terrible at sports as a kid and was always picked last because of this! I guess maybe just know that all of your followers care, you are not going mad, and keep at it! Love CPertyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08666799993332807592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-6775020848960973382012-05-31T09:36:35.772-07:002012-05-31T09:36:35.772-07:00Wow, thank you so much everyone for your comments....Wow, thank you so much everyone for your comments. IT's been amazing reading them and hearing that it's sort of a chronic issue in the dance community in genera.<br /><br />Beth, thanks so much for your candid reply. It means a lot, especially coming from a Balboa champion (congratulations by the way :) ). You have been dancing a lot longer than me, so it's comforting to know that my observations are not off. I was beginning to think I was going crazy.<br /><br />And I'm not mad at the scene, as you commented on to the positive, I just want the chance to get better. I have been taking private classes, and they are helping tons. Right now with classes there is a disparity in skill set between follows and leads. <br /><br />I've kind of peaked out, so to speak of some of my lindy classes and I want to find an advanced class where I can hone my basics. Im not interested in learning too much more to my dance vocabulary at this time, I just want to tweak my foundation stuff.<br /><br />Oh, and Beth, what's 'Bug's Question'? That a swing dance group on FB? And as for the parterning thing, you are right. It was just a total shocker, and I just gotta keep looking :)<br /><br />You guys are awesome! I had another dance class last night and learned a lot. I love learning this stuff, and I just want to get better so I can do it justice :)Shelleyjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05223944949880318245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-67234628259457292332012-05-31T08:12:59.915-07:002012-05-31T08:12:59.915-07:00Hi Shelley, I don't dance, outside of my home ...Hi Shelley, I don't dance, outside of my home anyway, so I don't know the politics of the dance scene, nor do I have suggestions for you. The dance scene sounds a lot like the politics of dating and relationships. From my own world as a 'dateless' stout woman I feel your pain.Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11688809657787883372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-49072149864763753532012-05-30T23:00:21.691-07:002012-05-30T23:00:21.691-07:00I feel your pain. It's the same thing where I ...I feel your pain. It's the same thing where I am, as well. Occasionally one of the instructors or "good" leads will ask me to dance, then exclaim in serious surprise, "That was REALLY fun! Why haven't I danced with you before?"<br /><br />My response is always, "Because you've never asked! :) If you ask, I'll dance."<br /><br />I've volunteered for events and taken work shifts at dance nights. I've taken lessons, and had the instructor make size-ist comments about herself (Are you saying I'm too fat for you to do this move?) and choose to do dance moves that made me so uncomfortable (because I've been dropped before when leads haven't realized how heavy I truly am) I had to leave the class. I danced twice a week for about 4 years, and now I just don't anymore.<br /><br />It makes me really sad when the dance culture and the cliques found in dancing make people stop dancing. It's exacerbated here because our dance scene is SO follow-heavy. Sometimes there will be almost 2 follows per lead, which doesn't bode well for any follow. The nights where fewer follows come out are the best for me, because then I don't have to compete so much for dances. I've never had a lead say no when I ask, unless they were waiting for someone they had promised a dance to. Yes, there will be leads with 10 follows waiting for their turn here. It's ridiculous.<br /><br />I wish you the best! I'm going to try busting my way back into the "scene" once my condensed courses are over this summer, maybe exclusively as a lead... ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-25280060557764943952012-05-30T22:35:16.268-07:002012-05-30T22:35:16.268-07:00Same problem in Milwaukee. I even had regular frie...Same problem in Milwaukee. I even had regular friends that had been going for a while and NO ONE asked me to dance. I am a fairly attractive girl, but I am bigger and I noticed that it was mostly the tiny gals getting asked. I think it has something to do with the overall bias that swing dancing means crazy maneuvers where the follow gets "swung" around.<br /><br />I do have to say that the bias goes both ways. My husband used to take dance lessons with his ex-wife and would go on a regular basis, until she felt he couldn't keep up with her and stopped dancing with him. Now he is super self-conscious when he dances and it takes a lot of effort to get him to do it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01855413111142257771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-80599117053200686292012-05-30T19:27:39.679-07:002012-05-30T19:27:39.679-07:00on a brighter note, you are staying active, eating...on a brighter note, you are staying active, eating healthy, following your passions. you are noticably slimming down, as well. keep up all the good stuff, keep on dancing and no doubt in my mind you will be in demand at those hops. probably the ones who don't want to dance with you now aren't worth dancing with anyway.Barbb bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13636150622598577684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-82167227915302952612012-05-30T18:50:02.181-07:002012-05-30T18:50:02.181-07:00BTW, I think this would make an excellent question...BTW, I think this would make an excellent question for Bug's Question of the Day on FB - "How can I improve as a follow when leads don't ask me to dance?". Or something like that. You might get some good insight AND remind people of this issue.Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05506540731006921244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-76986672713437612272012-05-30T18:46:17.031-07:002012-05-30T18:46:17.031-07:00I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the...I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head with this, unfortunately. It's always highly competitive to dance with the "good" people, and honestly that never changes, no matter what level you're at. But you're right that the follows who are either "good" or "cute" get the most attention. I see my male friends spend tons of time teaching cute beginner girls how to dance, and anyone who denies it is unobservant or lying. Because at its root, this really is just a singles scene.<br /><br />That said, what's cool about your post is that you aren't ranting at the world, but trying to figure out how to overcome a barrier in your path. Because you really want to be good, and you know that dancing with beginners won't get you there. Sure, there are many reasons for dancing with beginners, but improving your dancing isn't one. The best advice I can offer is just to keep at it - over time you will improve, people will begin to remember you and if they had fun dancing with you before they might ask again. Remember that a lot of the people in our scene have been dancing for 5+, 10+, 15+ years - I know that after a year of dancing regularly you feel like you should be starting to establish yourself, but to them you are still new, and you are still a beginner. You missed one chance to get a partner, but there are others (your friends' partnership might not even work out - a lot of partnerships come and go...) Just keep at it!<br /><br />The second best advice I've got, is to try taking some private lessons. Group lessons are good for getting started and meeting people, but for single follows there are diminishing returns as you get better. Group lessons teach you steps and moves, but privates are for refining your technique. And good technique is what makes a fat follow feel featherlight and fun to dance with.<br /><br />If you can, try going to different venues - it'll take a little while to become a familiar face, but I think some others are a little more welcoming. LG always has a competitive vibe (not the fault of the promoters who are super nice, I think it's just because so many people attend). PBDA and Rusty's are both nice places. You go to Joe's, right? I'm curious if you feel the same way there, or if LG is worse.Bethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05506540731006921244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-88590780993066371572012-05-30T17:43:49.900-07:002012-05-30T17:43:49.900-07:00Hi, Shelley,
I just wanted to say that I'm so...Hi, Shelley,<br /><br />I just wanted to say that I'm sorry that this is happening to you. It sounds awful. You might want to try Rylie's suggestion, but instead of connecting with a current friend, connect with a potential new friend/dance partner. <br /><br />Maybe an anomymous note or a letter to the organizers of the dance to remind leads/dancers to be polite and dance with people wallflowers and those who ask you to dance (isn't this common courtesy)? I do like the idea of making a large sign and having some sort of visible protest (swing dancing is not my dance scene, so I don't know how this would go over). Or just vote with your feet/wallet and move onto another pastime.Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05782386414185682598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-49512496041798435242012-05-30T17:17:11.880-07:002012-05-30T17:17:11.880-07:00It's a shame that "adults" can't...It's a shame that "adults" can't act like adults. I guess it's all about showing off instead of having fun. On another note, I did have to chuckle at the 3rd couple, the guy with the droopy drawers. rofl clothing so out of sync with the dance. Anyway, I hope things get better for you.Cactusneedlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13063893333954556967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-70106313819717186622012-05-30T16:01:21.180-07:002012-05-30T16:01:21.180-07:00I don't dance, but my little sister does and s...I don't dance, but my little sister does and she's experienced this in both swing and salsa.karen!https://www.blogger.com/profile/03020530163370836712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-63319130161777381942012-05-30T14:43:25.372-07:002012-05-30T14:43:25.372-07:00Sorry to hear about the poor ballroom etiquette. Y...Sorry to hear about the poor ballroom etiquette. You might check out bellydancing sometime. Women of all sizes bellydance, and no male partners are required. Chicago does have a bellydance community to look into!!Wendyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17713520345610962530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-16895536923739941382012-05-30T12:01:31.316-07:002012-05-30T12:01:31.316-07:00Thanks Rylie. I actually tried to find a dance par...Thanks Rylie. I actually tried to find a dance partner, last night. If you read my first comment in the replies, you'll see how that turned out. <br /><br />Now Im back at square one.Shelleyjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05223944949880318245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3370970170301288861.post-680962408413529352012-05-30T11:52:43.416-07:002012-05-30T11:52:43.416-07:00Oh and here's a story that I thought I'd s...Oh and here's a story that I thought I'd share too: in DC I once took my Dad and sisters to a swing dance event. My Dad had never ballroom danced in his life - and he picked up the very basic steps during the class. Unfortunately, he was too shy to ask anyone to dance. We tried to encourage him to, but he just wouldn't. A few women asked him to dance and he did turn them down. To which I kind of scolded him - as I said, "In ballroom, you never turn a lady down for a dance!"Ryliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06357133502862306006noreply@blogger.com